1 00:00:00,220 --> 00:00:12,820 [Music] 2 00:00:20,090 --> 00:00:16,100 good morning everyone thank you Oh a few 3 00:00:22,850 --> 00:00:20,100 but faithful welcome astrobiologists to 4 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:22,860 8:30 in the morning on Friday what are 5 00:00:27,710 --> 00:00:25,110 we doing to ourselves no I'm just 6 00:00:28,730 --> 00:00:27,720 kidding thank you so much for coming my 7 00:00:31,159 --> 00:00:28,740 name is Brittany Schmidt I'm an 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:31,169 assistant professor at Georgia Tech and 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:34,050 I come to this community with a 10 00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:36,570 background in planetary science and one 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:37,980 of the things that I've kind of heard a 12 00:00:42,380 --> 00:00:41,250 lot at least what early on was um we 13 00:00:43,940 --> 00:00:42,390 start talking about the missions that 14 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:43,950 were going and at the time it was the 15 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:46,170 arroba mission the previous one the one 16 00:00:50,750 --> 00:00:48,449 that never never happened 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:50,760 it was called jeo at Jupiter Europa 18 00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:53,370 orbiter missions change a lot is what 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:00:56,399 I've learned but so before clipper and 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:00,210 what became clipper and the experience 21 00:01:04,970 --> 00:01:02,730 that I had at least talking to a strobe 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:04,980 I ologists and in particular younger 23 00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:07,770 astrobiologists was oh there's no 24 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:09,870 astrobiology instruments on this they 25 00:01:14,450 --> 00:01:11,820 don't really like it okay well maybe 26 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:14,460 next time it was like no no no you have 27 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:16,710 to come to all of the the places where 28 00:01:19,969 --> 00:01:18,090 the decisions are being made and we have 29 00:01:21,230 --> 00:01:19,979 to figure out how to get the instruments 30 00:01:23,690 --> 00:01:21,240 and the science that we're really 31 00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:23,700 interested in on the missions right so 32 00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:26,310 we've been talking we've now spent five 33 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:28,470 or six or seven days depending on when 34 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:30,450 you actually arrived in Mesa talking 35 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:32,729 about astrobiology and the significance 36 00:01:38,539 --> 00:01:35,610 and how to discover life in the universe 37 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:38,549 but we still have N equals one right we 38 00:01:42,050 --> 00:01:40,170 have one example of that and in order to 39 00:01:44,179 --> 00:01:42,060 do that we're going to probably need 40 00:01:46,130 --> 00:01:44,189 spacecraft missions and so the purpose 41 00:01:48,530 --> 00:01:46,140 of today's panel is actually to just 42 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:48,540 kind of talk about the process of 43 00:01:54,590 --> 00:01:50,460 getting instruments and getting missions 44 00:01:56,660 --> 00:01:54,600 going and how to try to influence or try 45 00:01:58,459 --> 00:01:56,670 to improve the amount of direct 46 00:02:00,319 --> 00:01:58,469 astrobiology instruments and very 47 00:02:02,569 --> 00:02:00,329 importantly how to have this 48 00:02:05,090 --> 00:02:02,579 conversation and how to improve the 49 00:02:07,190 --> 00:02:05,100 number of instruments that are doing 50 00:02:08,570 --> 00:02:07,200 specifically our science and I think one 51 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:08,580 of the really important things we have 52 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:10,890 to think about is that we can't be 53 00:02:14,660 --> 00:02:13,110 frustrated with the missions of today if 54 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:14,670 we didn't do the technology beforehand 55 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:16,530 and that's a very long path to 56 00:02:22,220 --> 00:02:19,380 development and so these are just kind 57 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:22,230 of supposed to be informative for people 58 00:02:25,770 --> 00:02:24,810 who haven't been on missions before the 59 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:25,780 perhaps 60 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:28,150 a way to solve some problems for those 61 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:30,190 who are currently trying to get missions 62 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:32,500 through the TRL process technology 63 00:02:36,930 --> 00:02:34,810 readiness level process things like that 64 00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:36,940 so what we're going to do is we're going 65 00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:38,830 to have a quick introduction of the 66 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:41,590 panel mary wojtek's prepared a couple of 67 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:44,350 slides about the interest behind it and 68 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:46,630 the motivation behind astrobiology on 69 00:02:51,390 --> 00:02:49,030 missions and then each of the panelists 70 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:51,400 up here has some kind of experience 71 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:53,560 getting instruments and science on 72 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:55,810 missions and they'll talk a little bit 73 00:02:59,400 --> 00:02:57,370 about their experiences and then we'll 74 00:03:01,710 --> 00:02:59,410 kind of open it up to a discussion about 75 00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:01,720 how we might change that or or how we 76 00:03:06,570 --> 00:03:04,540 might be better informed about how this 77 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:06,580 process works and how we might improve 78 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:08,560 it for the astrobiology community in the 79 00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:10,750 future the first thing that I really 80 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:12,489 wanted to mention those whilst I have 81 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:16,120 the podium is that one of the things 82 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:19,720 that's very very important though in the 83 00:03:24,780 --> 00:03:22,570 current organization of NASA's 84 00:03:26,729 --> 00:03:24,790 scientific community is assessment 85 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:26,739 groups how many people here have been to 86 00:03:31,289 --> 00:03:28,750 an assessment group meeting or know what 87 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:31,299 I'm talking about that's what I thought 88 00:03:38,070 --> 00:03:35,410 so assessment groups Mars exploration 89 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:38,080 so the meatbag Oh peg the outer planets 90 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:40,690 assessment group s bag unfortunately 91 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:42,070 what a terrible terrible name that one 92 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:44,769 is but the small bodies assessment group 93 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:46,750 these are actually how the community 94 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:49,120 gets together and does some of the I 95 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:51,340 wouldn't say politics but does some of 96 00:03:55,530 --> 00:03:53,230 the organization that's not exactly 97 00:03:56,910 --> 00:03:55,540 science and that's where are these 98 00:03:59,130 --> 00:03:56,920 decisions are made so meatbag for 99 00:04:01,259 --> 00:03:59,140 example is where most of the landing 100 00:04:03,569 --> 00:04:01,269 site discussions are held for mars 2020 101 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:03,579 so if you haven't been there or you 102 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:05,380 haven't participated in that you haven't 103 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:07,360 given them ideas on where they should 104 00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:09,070 land and look for things that we care 105 00:04:13,470 --> 00:04:11,200 about so getting to me pag and getting 106 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:13,480 to opec i'm in the outer planets 107 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:15,940 community getting to those places is 108 00:04:19,590 --> 00:04:17,590 really really important 109 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:19,600 we had a roadmap for ocean worlds 110 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:22,630 meeting on Monday and my experience so 111 00:04:27,270 --> 00:04:24,970 far has been that mostly those were 112 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:27,280 planetary scientists because we email 113 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:29,200 out to the planetary science community 114 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:30,820 and it doesn't always the information 115 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:31,870 doesn't always make it out to 116 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:34,030 astrobiologists so if I could give you 117 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:35,650 one piece of advice it is that the 118 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:37,930 assessment groups matter they don't have 119 00:04:41,050 --> 00:04:38,570 science 120 00:04:42,460 --> 00:04:41,060 necessarily at those meetings but you 121 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:42,470 should really think about it because 122 00:04:45,910 --> 00:04:44,030 that's where you actually impact the 123 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:45,920 direction of future at least direct 124 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:48,170 admissions and it's a great place to go 125 00:04:51,910 --> 00:04:49,760 for information and just figure out how 126 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:51,920 it works so anyway so now I will get 127 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:54,470 down off of my high horse and introduce 128 00:04:59,260 --> 00:04:57,110 our panel Mary we'll get on it soon soon 129 00:05:02,860 --> 00:04:59,270 thereafter so let me quickly introduce 130 00:05:04,810 --> 00:05:02,870 everyone this is dr. Mary Wojtek of NASA 131 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:04,820 headquarters if you don't know her you 132 00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:06,860 should probably come up hug her she does 133 00:05:11,770 --> 00:05:08,420 a fantastic job 134 00:05:14,110 --> 00:05:11,780 she's probably why myself and many other 135 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:14,120 people in the room have Dollars and also 136 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:17,030 have a career and thank you very much 137 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:25,370 for everything you do next to her is is 138 00:05:33,940 --> 00:05:30,410 Stephanie Getty next to her is Erin Noel 139 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:33,950 next to him is Amanda Stockton and next 140 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:36,170 to her is dr. Jim Bell so actually 141 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:37,690 doctors all I apologize 142 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:40,370 so everyone everyone is a doctor as it 143 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:44,630 turns out all right very good let's go 144 00:05:50,470 --> 00:05:47,090 ahead and Mary would you inspire us with 145 00:05:51,850 --> 00:05:50,480 healthcare information all of us are 146 00:05:56,290 --> 00:05:51,860 doctors but no one will help you if 147 00:05:58,720 --> 00:05:56,300 you're sick so okay so so I'm going to 148 00:06:02,020 --> 00:05:58,730 start out with what leads us to this 149 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:02,030 incredibly important time in in 150 00:06:06,570 --> 00:06:04,850 astrobiology and at NASA and start with 151 00:06:08,830 --> 00:06:06,580 this great picture we took the other day 152 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:08,840 astrobiologists 800 strong and growing 153 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:10,370 this is the largest meeting we've had 154 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:12,410 the last one there about 750 people 155 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:15,530 registered yay and what's incredible of 156 00:06:19,270 --> 00:06:17,150 course and one of the reasons we decided 157 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:19,280 to take the picture is if you look at 158 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:22,810 the demographics of this of this shot 159 00:06:26,590 --> 00:06:25,010 basically we worry about the future 160 00:06:30,130 --> 00:06:26,600 workforce I think the future workforce 161 00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:30,140 in astrobiology is incredibly safe we 162 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:31,520 need to keep making sure that it's 163 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:38,590 I'm going to start out by giving a sort 164 00:06:42,490 --> 00:06:40,550 of two perspective to assure you that 165 00:06:44,860 --> 00:06:42,500 the public is extremely interested in 166 00:06:47,650 --> 00:06:44,870 what it is that we do so the top figure 167 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:47,660 is a graph since January 1st of 2015 of 168 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:49,940 announcements that were made at NASA and 169 00:06:53,340 --> 00:06:52,000 the page views for each of them 170 00:06:56,540 --> 00:06:53,350 of course people continue to be 171 00:06:59,220 --> 00:06:56,550 fascinated by Mars they continue to be 172 00:07:01,080 --> 00:06:59,230 fascinated or not continue but they're 173 00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:01,090 getting more and more fascinated but you 174 00:07:06,180 --> 00:07:02,830 can see down there I want to move 175 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:06,190 forward lean forward so you can see that 176 00:07:10,170 --> 00:07:07,570 that's one of the highest ones there's 177 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:10,180 also interested in exoplanets turns out 178 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:13,480 that Trappist won the announcement there 179 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:15,310 in many regards surpassed almost any 180 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:17,650 other announcement that we had but below 181 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:20,380 that is another image just showing their 182 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:22,690 own social post in the reach of those 183 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:26,230 and so again we see Mars water being 184 00:07:33,980 --> 00:07:29,070 important we see 185 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:39,060 exoplanets in the and Trappist I just 186 00:07:43,590 --> 00:07:41,080 want to share with you I was part of the 187 00:07:45,150 --> 00:07:43,600 lipsticks let me go back a second it's 188 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:45,160 not plotted on here but I've been told 189 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:46,780 that the recent announcements of 190 00:07:51,780 --> 00:07:48,760 hydrogen coming found in the plume of 191 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:51,790 Enceladus and a confirmation or second 192 00:07:57,210 --> 00:07:55,450 observation of plumes from your ropa was 193 00:08:00,409 --> 00:07:57,220 about a quarter the size of the Trappist 194 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:00,419 and what they considered in NASA 195 00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:03,610 promotion or PA Oh speak you know a top 196 00:08:09,719 --> 00:08:06,760 a top story of a year of a year maybe 197 00:08:11,460 --> 00:08:09,729 not of all times but of a year so again 198 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:11,470 we continue the interest with the public 199 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:13,630 I want to share some of the things that 200 00:08:19,530 --> 00:08:16,900 came out of that press conference which 201 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:19,540 I was part of some of the reactions one 202 00:08:23,219 --> 00:08:21,150 of my favorite so they had a bingo on 203 00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:23,229 social media and one of my favorite was 204 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:26,560 someone designing their own graphic of 205 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:28,210 what was going on in Europa one of the 206 00:08:32,670 --> 00:08:30,990 quotes that was that came out of 207 00:08:35,310 --> 00:08:32,680 microbiologist that was actually working 208 00:08:39,719 --> 00:08:35,320 on it was that Europa was producing 209 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:39,729 about 35 pizzas a day for as food for 210 00:08:42,810 --> 00:08:41,260 microbes and again they kind of got the 211 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:42,820 chemistry wrong here they decide to make 212 00:08:48,510 --> 00:08:45,910 pizza they equated cheese and sauce and 213 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:48,520 toppings with carbon and hydrogen 214 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:50,290 because they thought they were making a 215 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:52,450 methane but but you see the point 216 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:53,770 they're actually getting it and 217 00:08:57,570 --> 00:08:56,410 responding quite positively to us the 218 00:08:59,579 --> 00:08:57,580 other thing of course is another 219 00:09:00,750 --> 00:08:59,589 favorite is on the left people are a 220 00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:00,760 little disappointed that there aren't 221 00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:02,860 whales or porpoises leaping out of the 222 00:09:07,030 --> 00:09:05,120 plumes of of Enceladus 223 00:09:08,650 --> 00:09:07,040 and someone is already to go and give a 224 00:09:12,220 --> 00:09:08,660 perspective of what maybe it might be 225 00:09:14,050 --> 00:09:12,230 like to be within one of those moons and 226 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:14,060 here are some of the you know the 227 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:16,130 comments that that were I thought were 228 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:18,890 quite fun who wants to come icing on on 229 00:09:24,370 --> 00:09:21,770 Enceladus and again NASA has delivered 230 00:09:27,150 --> 00:09:24,380 amazing new news one of Saturn's moon 231 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:27,160 and Seles could Harbor life in its ocean 232 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:31,010 and then I just want to note that one of 233 00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:32,510 the reasons that we predicted that 234 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:33,920 perhaps we didn't get as much coverage 235 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:36,670 as we thought we might is the fact that 236 00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:39,230 at the same time this was going on we 237 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:41,120 had dropped the mother of all bombs and 238 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:44,210 so there was some some competition and 239 00:09:48,579 --> 00:09:46,610 coverage and interest in the public but 240 00:09:50,769 --> 00:09:48,589 I really like the the observation on the 241 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:50,779 right which is so we dropped the biggest 242 00:09:55,180 --> 00:09:53,450 non nuclear bomb ever NASA's is already 243 00:10:01,090 --> 00:09:55,190 looking for ways to get off the planet 244 00:10:03,010 --> 00:10:01,100 take me with you so so in addition to 245 00:10:04,930 --> 00:10:03,020 the public their representatives and 246 00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:04,940 Congress are extraordinarily supportive 247 00:10:09,310 --> 00:10:07,520 of astrobiology and the search for life 248 00:10:12,370 --> 00:10:09,320 that while we were attending this 249 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:12,380 meeting there was a hearing on Congress 250 00:10:16,930 --> 00:10:14,510 and the in the committee for Science 251 00:10:18,610 --> 00:10:16,940 Space and Technology and this is a part 252 00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:18,620 from the statement that the Chairman 253 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:21,230 Lamar Smith made about the hearing on 254 00:10:25,930 --> 00:10:24,080 advances in the search for life you know 255 00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:25,940 he acknowledges that we have pioneered 256 00:10:29,829 --> 00:10:27,830 and it's not the United States it's us 257 00:10:32,050 --> 00:10:29,839 in this room and you know everyone who's 258 00:10:33,790 --> 00:10:32,060 attended this conference and Beyond have 259 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:33,800 had pioneered the field of astrobiology 260 00:10:38,829 --> 00:10:35,930 and continues to lead the world in this 261 00:10:40,420 --> 00:10:38,839 type of research since its beginning 262 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:40,430 nASA has searched for life beyond Earth 263 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:42,800 and then he actually has a call-out or 264 00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:43,910 shoutout for us 265 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:45,920 he actually acknowledged that part of 266 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:48,290 the reason well that while he was 267 00:10:52,510 --> 00:10:50,720 discussing advances and considering or 268 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:52,520 educating the rest of Congress about 269 00:10:57,730 --> 00:10:54,890 after biology we were here doing our 270 00:11:00,250 --> 00:10:57,740 jobs sharing with each other the the new 271 00:11:02,110 --> 00:11:00,260 research findings and and working 272 00:11:04,420 --> 00:11:02,120 together to plan for future 273 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:04,430 opportunities and then I want to hit on 274 00:11:07,420 --> 00:11:05,510 a little bit with something which is 275 00:11:09,790 --> 00:11:07,430 extraordinarily exciting to me and 276 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:09,800 that's the NASA transition Authorization 277 00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:15,280 Act of 2017 it most III in coming to 278 00:11:18,740 --> 00:11:17,720 NASA headquarters I got to relearn 279 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:18,750 civics 280 00:11:22,429 --> 00:11:20,370 really understand how bills were made 281 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:22,439 and budges gets lines and all that stuff 282 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:25,050 so the authorization is actually setting 283 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:26,910 priorities for agencies and it's on 284 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:29,399 opportunity to give direction that 285 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,649 signifies interest by Congress it also 286 00:11:37,069 --> 00:11:33,360 is an opportunity to change the existing 287 00:11:38,629 --> 00:11:37,079 enactment laws that govern agencies and 288 00:11:41,769 --> 00:11:38,639 other activities within the federal 289 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:41,779 government we haven't had one since 2010 290 00:11:45,970 --> 00:11:44,610 for NASA but we had one fine this year 291 00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:45,980 and there's some really important 292 00:11:51,949 --> 00:11:48,990 legislative or directives and 293 00:11:54,290 --> 00:11:51,959 legislative changes in this the first is 294 00:11:56,990 --> 00:11:54,300 again signaling how important searching 295 00:11:58,819 --> 00:11:57,000 for life is it's targeted all the areas 296 00:12:01,249 --> 00:11:58,829 that were interested in in terms of 297 00:12:03,019 --> 00:12:01,259 moving forward when Congress asks us to 298 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:03,029 ask the National Academy to look at 299 00:12:07,129 --> 00:12:04,110 something that means they're really 300 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:07,139 interested so section 508 asked the 301 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:09,689 National Academies to do a study to 302 00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:11,910 understand how to study and explore 303 00:12:16,939 --> 00:12:14,339 extrasolar planets and in the language 304 00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:16,949 it very specifically links it to looking 305 00:12:23,199 --> 00:12:20,399 at habitability and searching for life 306 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:23,209 five ten talks about expanding 307 00:12:28,329 --> 00:12:25,050 public/private partnerships 308 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:28,339 looking as a tremendous amount of 309 00:12:34,189 --> 00:12:31,290 philanthropic and form a interest in 310 00:12:36,439 --> 00:12:34,199 supporting us as well as foundations 311 00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:36,449 that that want to fund the science as 312 00:12:41,689 --> 00:12:39,600 well as the technology section 509 to 313 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:41,699 request that we go and get a strategy 314 00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:46,050 for searching for life and then the 315 00:12:49,999 --> 00:12:48,720 final line is again continued support 316 00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:50,009 for our Mars program what's the 317 00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:52,110 architecture now we've got 2020 in the 318 00:12:57,049 --> 00:12:54,089 pipeline what's going to happen after 319 00:12:58,850 --> 00:12:57,059 that we want to hear from from the 320 00:13:00,410 --> 00:12:58,860 broader science community or they want 321 00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:00,420 to hear from it and the thing that I 322 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:02,550 think is most amazing and I'm going to 323 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:04,290 end with this and I want a round of 324 00:13:10,429 --> 00:13:08,370 cheers and applause is within the Space 325 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:10,439 Act there's a the first part of it 326 00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,839 outlines what exactly NASA is supposed 327 00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:14,399 to do and there's a section called 328 00:13:21,139 --> 00:13:18,959 policy and purpose and since this year 329 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:21,149 there have been nine of them and I want 330 00:13:26,569 --> 00:13:23,250 you to look at number 10 we are in the 331 00:13:28,699 --> 00:13:26,579 top 10 we're number 10 the search for 332 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:28,709 life's origin evolution distribution and 333 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:29,970 future in the universe 334 00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:38,329 so all I can say is we have public 335 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:40,140 support we have their representative in 336 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:42,120 Congress that you know somewhat control 337 00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:43,620 the purse strings so we've got support 338 00:13:49,940 --> 00:13:46,740 there we've got a fantastic work force 339 00:13:53,450 --> 00:13:49,950 ready to do the job we need to grab this 340 00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:53,460 ride this tide and expect incredible 341 00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:55,500 opportunities and an amazing future but 342 00:13:59,480 --> 00:13:58,110 we all need to be part of it so I think 343 00:14:02,360 --> 00:13:59,490 there's going to be a great I'll only 344 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:02,370 iterate that my version of what some of 345 00:14:06,950 --> 00:14:04,290 one of the things that Brittany said was 346 00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:06,960 if we only have hammers in our toolbox 347 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:09,540 we look for nails we need to work with 348 00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:11,880 the community develop new sets of tools 349 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:17,190 to draw stronger conclude stronger 350 00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:19,170 advice about what the measurements are 351 00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:21,270 that should be made so we can get those 352 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:23,820 tool designers to make those tools so 353 00:14:27,019 --> 00:14:25,290 that we're not just looking for nails 354 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:27,029 across the universe 355 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:39,000 thank you all right perfect so he was 356 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:45,570 like you live not yet oh yes so so as 357 00:14:48,890 --> 00:14:47,070 Brittany mentioned my name is Stephanie 358 00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:48,900 Getty I am at NASA Goddard Space Flight 359 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:53,310 Center and pretty kind of gave us some 360 00:14:58,670 --> 00:14:55,260 guidance on what we ought to cover for 361 00:15:01,610 --> 00:14:58,680 introductions and so in kind of the 362 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:01,620 science realm I'm interested in how 363 00:15:06,850 --> 00:15:03,570 organics are distributed throughout our 364 00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:06,860 solar system and really what constitutes 365 00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:10,860 the the best way to differentiate 366 00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:13,350 between an abiotic signature and 367 00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:17,070 something that derives from biology and 368 00:15:24,019 --> 00:15:20,760 I do that through really instrument 369 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:24,029 development and instrument science in 370 00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:27,209 the sense of looking at are the best 371 00:15:31,579 --> 00:15:29,070 possible terrestrial analogs that we 372 00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:31,589 have for a variety of environments that 373 00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:33,510 may be of interest to this community 374 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:35,550 throughout the solar system including 375 00:15:42,199 --> 00:15:39,810 Mars and and ocean worlds analogs and 376 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:42,209 and then a large component of what I do 377 00:15:46,650 --> 00:15:45,450 is in in really the instrument science 378 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:46,660 and how you do 379 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:48,730 how you make the best measurements to 380 00:15:57,750 --> 00:15:54,310 get at those answers so in terms of my 381 00:15:59,220 --> 00:15:57,760 involvement in flight instruments I'm on 382 00:16:01,500 --> 00:15:59,230 the moma science team and part of the 383 00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:01,510 moma mass spectrometer development team 384 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:04,180 at Goddard that's one component of a 385 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:06,910 German lead instrument moma that will go 386 00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:12,070 to Mars in 2020 and Rove around and then 387 00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:14,590 get at the deep subsurface deep deep is 388 00:16:23,310 --> 00:16:17,590 a relative term here two meters down and 389 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:23,320 so so thinking about drawing parallels 390 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:26,170 or conclusions from what Mars Science 391 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:28,210 Laboratory has measured and some of the 392 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:31,570 predecessor missions have measured and 393 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:36,180 and how do we extrapolate to do now the 394 00:16:40,530 --> 00:16:38,530 science that needs to be done to inform 395 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:40,540 our expectations and our data 396 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:43,210 interpretation when we do get there with 397 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:46,750 MoMA so that's an example of an 398 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:49,810 instrument that has really not flown 399 00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:51,190 before the mass spectrometer is a new 400 00:16:55,650 --> 00:16:52,960 type of mass spec talk spectrometer that 401 00:16:57,390 --> 00:16:55,660 has not flown before and it has you know 402 00:17:00,270 --> 00:16:57,400 some new capabilities so if you're 403 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,280 looking for you know pushing the 404 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:03,040 envelope on the science questions that 405 00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,890 you want to ask you know sometimes you 406 00:17:09,809 --> 00:17:08,079 really really need to go after new 407 00:17:11,850 --> 00:17:09,819 things that really match the 408 00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:11,860 requirements that you're going after and 409 00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:13,420 so MoMA is a good example it's a very 410 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:16,480 sensitive mass spectrometer and it 411 00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:18,010 overlaps with some of the capabilities 412 00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,350 that we have flown previously and it's 413 00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:22,959 gas chromatography but it also uses 414 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:25,870 laser desorption/ionization to look at 415 00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:28,630 unprepared samples for high molecular 416 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:32,440 weight organics which is interesting now 417 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:34,090 as an instrument that hasn't flown 418 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:36,610 before you know it's been an educational 419 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:38,650 experience particularly for me coming 420 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:42,010 from more of a lower TRL instrument 421 00:17:47,580 --> 00:17:45,430 development career to this point and 422 00:17:51,420 --> 00:17:47,590 then you know watching what it really 423 00:17:53,460 --> 00:17:51,430 means to get something new developed and 424 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:53,470 matured and ready for flight and it's 425 00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:55,570 been an incredible experience and 426 00:18:02,120 --> 00:17:57,670 incredible effort by you know a really 427 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:02,130 talented team at Goddard which is 428 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:04,660 you want me to stop there do you want me 429 00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:07,540 answer your third question okay 430 00:18:13,290 --> 00:18:10,630 I probably the third question but the 431 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:13,300 third question was describe a recent 432 00:18:21,390 --> 00:18:17,940 challenge in getting something with 433 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:21,400 astrobiology capabilities Sloane and I 434 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:25,540 think I rather than answer that directly 435 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:29,890 what I will say is you know I was trying 436 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:32,620 to think from from NASA's point of view 437 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:34,960 from headquarters point of view what it 438 00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:38,920 means to develop a portfolio of 439 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:43,120 instrumentation and I think the 440 00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:45,190 possibilities for making measurements 441 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:47,320 that can really get at very important 442 00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:49,030 science questions particularly in the 443 00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:55,120 search for life requires you know a lot 444 00:19:00,540 --> 00:18:57,280 of a lot of parallel efforts and really 445 00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:00,550 a broad portfolio and so from 446 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:04,240 headquarters point of view I I don't 447 00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:07,570 know but I presume there's useful if you 448 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:10,660 have a number of possibilities at the 449 00:19:14,850 --> 00:19:12,370 ready when you are 450 00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,860 when you are trying to put together your 451 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:16,960 next mission from an instrument 452 00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:19,150 developers point of view there are never 453 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:22,120 enough missions to get everything flown 454 00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:24,610 so there's a there's an inherent tension 455 00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:28,840 there but I would say that you know 456 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:30,940 there there are a lot of instrument 457 00:19:36,090 --> 00:19:33,610 capabilities there in development and 458 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:36,100 really at the conception phase right now 459 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:39,090 even that would be very deserving of 460 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:41,290 finding their way onto the mission and 461 00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:44,610 hopefully we can continue to work as a 462 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:48,430 you know good citizens to to try to 463 00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:50,650 increase the number of missions that we 464 00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:51,700 can get out there so that we can make 465 00:20:03,150 --> 00:19:59,170 those measurements yep I'm I'm Erin Noel 466 00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:03,160 and I work at JPL and so my my 467 00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:04,870 background is as a physical and 468 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:09,670 analytical chemist and so I guess I like 469 00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:11,170 everyone was we were discussing work on 470 00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:13,780 many things but you know one of one of 471 00:20:15,780 --> 00:20:14,200 my 472 00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:15,790 interests in astrobiology and 473 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:18,820 instrumentation is on really doing sort 474 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:21,010 of contextual habitability measurements 475 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:22,690 and specifically through sort of 476 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:25,450 measurements involving soluble ions so 477 00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:28,330 I've put a lot of time into trying to 478 00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:30,070 develop microfluidic instruments that 479 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:33,480 can separate and detect a variety of 480 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:36,310 markers related to habitability and so 481 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:38,650 trying to miniaturize techniques like 482 00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:40,510 capillary electrophoresis or ion 483 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:44,590 chromatography and so continuing doing 484 00:20:50,190 --> 00:20:48,130 also a lot of work at low TRL I guess my 485 00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:50,200 mission experience is pretty limited 486 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:53,860 it's in the proposal process so but you 487 00:20:58,530 --> 00:20:55,570 know working on that has showed me a lot 488 00:21:00,750 --> 00:20:58,540 about what you need to do to try to take 489 00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:00,760 things all the way and really propose 490 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:02,860 them as credible instruments and have it 491 00:21:09,780 --> 00:21:06,930 be a strong part of the science case so 492 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:09,790 and my experience and that is with sort 493 00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:12,070 of the the wet chemistry lab team and 494 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,750 the and the heritage of that instrument 495 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:16,000 which was in a electrochemical an array 496 00:21:21,180 --> 00:21:18,190 of electrochemical sensors designed to 497 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:21,190 search for soluble ions and so we're 498 00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:24,340 continuing to try to develop those tools 499 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:27,520 for for discovery and now new frontiers 500 00:21:33,570 --> 00:21:31,330 proposals so I guess and challenges well 501 00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:33,580 you know there are always a lot of 502 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:35,710 challenges but I think in a way Brittany 503 00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:38,890 hit on one of the the biggest which is I 504 00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:40,980 think it comes down to perseverance I 505 00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:43,480 don't know if any of you were at the IPM 506 00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:46,840 meeting a few months ago but both Chris 507 00:21:50,670 --> 00:21:48,760 Webster from the tunable laser 508 00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:50,680 spectrometer and and Luther Beagle of 509 00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:53,260 Sherlock give really great talks about 510 00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,180 sort of what it takes to go through the 511 00:22:00,030 --> 00:21:57,280 process of developing an instrument and 512 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:00,040 getting all the way to the end you know 513 00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:02,050 the end goal of being included on a 514 00:22:06,030 --> 00:22:04,030 mission and and in the case of TLS 515 00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:06,040 delivering you know incredible results 516 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:09,040 so and you know it's basically a 517 00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:11,650 nonlinear story of keeping at it and I 518 00:22:20,030 --> 00:22:13,900 think you know I haven't solved it yet 519 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:22,320 just one yeah excellent 520 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:24,130 I'm Amanda Stockton I'm an assistant 521 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:25,510 professor at the Georgia Institute of 522 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:27,730 Technology I've been there for about two 523 00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,610 and a half years now and my interests 524 00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:32,320 are pretty much all of the questions of 525 00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:35,920 astrobiology is there life beyond what 526 00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:37,960 are the limits of life on Earth how does 527 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:39,880 life begin and evolving my group tries 528 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:42,010 to tackle all of these questions in a 529 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:43,570 number of different ways but we use 530 00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,300 micro fluidics as our core technology 531 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:47,200 for all of these things and I think 532 00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:48,970 micro fluidics has a lot of strengths 533 00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:52,480 for Space Flight because it allows you 534 00:22:55,260 --> 00:22:53,710 to do some of these white chemical 535 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:55,270 analyses that are otherwise rather 536 00:23:01,320 --> 00:22:57,610 challenging to do down at the small 537 00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:01,330 scale my experience working on missions 538 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:02,980 began whenever I was a graduate student 539 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:05,140 with rich Mathies at the University of 540 00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:07,930 California Berkeley working on the 541 00:23:11,490 --> 00:23:09,430 microchip capillary electrophoresis 542 00:23:14,130 --> 00:23:11,500 system with laser induced fluorescence 543 00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:14,140 detection as part of the URI instrument 544 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:16,750 package onboard the ExoMars Rover 545 00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:20,650 a lot of words to say but I was kind of 546 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:22,240 forced into early graduation when the 547 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:23,710 instrument was be scoped from the 548 00:23:31,140 --> 00:23:27,970 ExoMars Rover at that point I went down 549 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:31,150 to JPL and worked with Peter Willis as a 550 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:32,770 postdoc and kind of helped get that 551 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:35,650 program up and it has been incredibly 552 00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:38,620 successful since then so I like 553 00:23:42,930 --> 00:23:41,440 microchip capillary electrophoresis with 554 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:42,940 laser induced fluorescence detection for 555 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:45,520 a number of reasons LIF is incredibly 556 00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:47,970 sensitive you can't hardly beat it as a 557 00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:50,320 concentration sensitive method we're 558 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:51,790 looking at the capability to detect 559 00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:53,020 seventy picomolar 560 00:23:57,540 --> 00:23:55,630 of an amino acid from a sample plug as 561 00:23:59,880 --> 00:23:57,550 it passes a detector that's 35 microns 562 00:24:04,860 --> 00:23:59,890 by 35 microns by a hundred microns 563 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:04,870 that's a de moles of sample and I like 564 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:06,340 microchip capillary electrophoresis 565 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:07,420 because you just can't beat the 566 00:24:11,670 --> 00:24:08,770 resolution and you can get chiral 567 00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:11,680 separations as well so that's one of the 568 00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:13,360 technologies I continue to work on and 569 00:24:21,180 --> 00:24:18,700 have been involved in various instrument 570 00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:21,190 proposals including to Mars 2020 with 571 00:24:27,090 --> 00:24:23,320 the Mars organic analyzer out of UC 572 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:27,100 Berkeley PID by rich Matthews and we 573 00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:29,920 continue to attempt to get this type of 574 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:31,900 technology on a mission because we just 575 00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:34,330 believe that it is so powerful currently 576 00:24:38,340 --> 00:24:36,190 in my group however we're focusing on 577 00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:38,350 the low TRL development of various 578 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:40,270 instruments still focusing on micro 579 00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,290 fluidics and 580 00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:43,440 laser induced fluorescence detection and 581 00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:45,880 continuing a little bit of microchips EE 582 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:48,070 as well so one of our projects has no 583 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:51,310 separations but it is capable of 584 00:24:57,290 --> 00:24:54,160 withstanding a hard landing with an icy 585 00:24:59,940 --> 00:24:57,300 moon slowing down from approximately 5 586 00:25:02,820 --> 00:24:59,950 km/s and a 50 millisecond pulse that's 587 00:25:05,010 --> 00:25:02,830 50,000 GS that's our design limit we've 588 00:25:07,050 --> 00:25:05,020 tested up to 12,000 GS so far but 589 00:25:10,050 --> 00:25:07,060 hopefully we'll be able to get the rest 590 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:10,060 of the way there and also have a little 591 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:12,070 bit of work developing microchips EE 592 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:15,310 with mass spectrometry detection so that 593 00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:17,710 we can not have to do derivatives ation 594 00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:20,320 in order to detect and Kyra Lee resolve 595 00:25:26,190 --> 00:25:23,440 amino acids so I think one of the big 596 00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:26,200 challenges that we're looking at here 597 00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:28,420 was hit 1 by Mary Wojtek here where if 598 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:29,830 we only have hammers we're looking for 599 00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,530 nails and Stephanie said we don't have 600 00:25:35,730 --> 00:25:34,240 enough missions as instrument developers 601 00:25:40,020 --> 00:25:35,740 as I think that's hits on something 602 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:40,030 where heritage is such a primary 603 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:41,680 selector and what instrument gets 604 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:46,260 selected for a mission and not all 605 00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:48,910 heritage is equal there's a difference 606 00:25:53,070 --> 00:25:51,070 between an instrument that performs 607 00:25:55,290 --> 00:25:53,080 beautifully gives you the data that 608 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:55,300 you're looking for quite easily and one 609 00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:57,490 where the data comes back and it's messy 610 00:26:03,750 --> 00:25:58,930 and confusing and challenging to figure 611 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:03,760 out and so perhaps we could have more 612 00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:07,480 missions and be able to select some of 613 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:09,460 these instruments that are very very 614 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:11,530 promising but don't yet have the 615 00:26:22,260 --> 00:26:19,510 heritage ok sis on good morning hey I'm 616 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:22,270 Jim Bell I'm a professor here at ASU in 617 00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:23,890 school of Earth and space exploration 618 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:26,950 and I work with the spectacular Brittany 619 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:28,270 Schmidt on the board of the Planetary 620 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:33,090 Society big friend of astrobiology and 621 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:36,130 Mary called me the old man on the panel 622 00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:38,770 so I guess I'll take that role but 623 00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:43,990 you're the old lady I guess so I'm not a 624 00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:46,030 real Astro biologist but I play one at 625 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:49,870 work I'm a camera guy for the most part 626 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:53,050 been involved in imaging investigations 627 00:26:57,410 --> 00:26:54,880 Mars imaging investigation 628 00:27:00,720 --> 00:26:57,420 from Pathfinder and spirit opportunity 629 00:27:03,390 --> 00:27:00,730 curiosity and I'm the PI of the mask NZ 630 00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:03,400 cameras on 2020 so think a lot about 631 00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:07,060 about cameras and as an imaging person 632 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:10,480 and primarily a geologist a little bit 633 00:27:13,230 --> 00:27:12,400 of a mineralogist I think about the ways 634 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,240 that we can do 635 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:16,000 astrobiology with those those kinds of 636 00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:18,490 imaging systems of course we could take 637 00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:20,500 pictures of things walking around on the 638 00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:22,600 surface I would be spectacular but more 639 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:25,150 more realistically what what we do ask 640 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:26,770 for biologically with the imaging is 641 00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:28,510 under try to understand the context in 642 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:31,000 the history and you know what was this 643 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:32,290 environment like what were the 644 00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:34,710 conditions like that could have enabled 645 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:40,360 astrobiology and so you know in that 646 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:45,490 sense it's a it's a simple instrument in 647 00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:47,410 the sense of not having to you know 648 00:27:50,490 --> 00:27:49,390 invoke all the complexity of many of the 649 00:27:52,050 --> 00:27:50,500 things that I didn't understand half of 650 00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:52,060 what you were saying but it was sounds 651 00:27:58,170 --> 00:27:55,870 really complex and and that's a theme 652 00:28:03,260 --> 00:27:58,180 and heritage is a real theme to come 653 00:28:05,910 --> 00:28:03,270 back to I wanted to touch on a couple of 654 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:05,920 recommendations or ideas to pass along 655 00:28:09,690 --> 00:28:07,660 Brittany I completely agree with you the 656 00:28:13,530 --> 00:28:09,700 eggs are sort of where it's at for 657 00:28:17,850 --> 00:28:13,540 getting input into the the machine that 658 00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:17,860 cranks out mission requirements and you 659 00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:19,960 know there's you mentioned me peg and s 660 00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:23,350 bag and Oh peg you know why isn't there 661 00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:26,860 an ABS AG right I mean whatever whatever 662 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:29,230 we call it right you know this this 663 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:30,610 community is getting to the critical 664 00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:33,310 mass of where you know some advocacy 665 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,580 with the right people would would you 666 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:38,080 know maybe push that over the limit and 667 00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:41,290 so instead of having to to be you know 668 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:43,780 piecemeal in these other groups maybe 669 00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:45,700 maybe this this community could have its 670 00:28:53,310 --> 00:28:49,480 voice heard uniformly that's a community 671 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:53,320 kind of thing as individuals what I try 672 00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:57,490 to tell my own students and other young 673 00:29:00,800 --> 00:28:59,380 career professionals is you know get 674 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:00,810 yourself on a science definition team 675 00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:04,510 get yourself on an NRC report like the 676 00:29:07,770 --> 00:29:07,030 ones that Mary Preview they're coming up 677 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:07,780 right 678 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:09,640 get yourself on a review panels I mean 679 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:11,770 people can volunteer for review panel 680 00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:12,850 how often does that happen 681 00:29:17,010 --> 00:29:14,350 you guys are giddy when they do right 682 00:29:20,130 --> 00:29:17,020 yeah I see people volunteer they don't 683 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:20,140 but they don't come okay okay you show 684 00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:23,470 up but the point is to become part of 685 00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:29,220 the process and what what comes out of 686 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:32,020 assessment group white papers and 687 00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:33,760 consensus reports what comes out of 688 00:29:39,030 --> 00:29:37,030 science definition team reports folds 689 00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:39,040 right into what the mission will need 690 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:42,340 and so you know if you are a strong 691 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:45,010 advocate and believer of methodology X 692 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:46,570 and think that that is going to make a 693 00:29:49,710 --> 00:29:48,250 huge difference get your voice heard 694 00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:49,720 pull your friends and colleagues 695 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:52,800 together point to your papers and 696 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:55,150 abstracts and presentations and try to 697 00:29:59,940 --> 00:29:57,490 convince groups like that hey this is 698 00:30:02,790 --> 00:29:59,950 really important and of course you never 699 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:02,800 know what comes out of the other side in 700 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:04,690 these sausage-making exercises but 701 00:30:08,730 --> 00:30:06,370 sometimes what comes out of the other 702 00:30:10,530 --> 00:30:08,740 side is a requirement for a mission 703 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:10,540 investigation then you say oh I do that 704 00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:14,050 or I can do that so that's that's a way 705 00:30:20,790 --> 00:30:17,380 to to get into it the topic of heritage 706 00:30:22,650 --> 00:30:20,800 came up the this I think the simplest 707 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:22,660 way and I've had both kinds of 708 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:24,370 experimental --zz that have gotten 709 00:30:29,550 --> 00:30:26,350 rejected and I've written some proposals 710 00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:29,560 I've gotten accepted and it seems like 711 00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:31,780 from my case the common theme of the 712 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:33,640 ones that have been accepted are the 713 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:35,470 ones that had the highest heritage you 714 00:30:38,790 --> 00:30:37,090 know it's sort of natural human nature 715 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:38,800 conservative review panels they're 716 00:30:45,660 --> 00:30:42,130 looking for incremental advances not 717 00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:45,670 leaps because leaps are risky and you 718 00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:47,470 can take that risk it's okay to take 719 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:49,150 that risk but just know that you're 720 00:30:53,670 --> 00:30:50,770 going to be competing with others who 721 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:53,680 aren't and so when the review panel is 722 00:30:57,780 --> 00:30:55,090 kind of biting their nails and saying 723 00:31:00,360 --> 00:30:57,790 who how do we how do we really guarantee 724 00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:00,370 success here or do our part in 725 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:02,140 guaranteeing success they're looking for 726 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:03,670 lowest risk they're often looking for 727 00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:06,010 highest heritage so but but that's not a 728 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:08,350 killer right you can take your your 729 00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:11,640 novel idea and I think it's possible to 730 00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:14,470 sort of incrementally tack novel ideas 731 00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:16,540 into high heritage instrumental 732 00:31:21,550 --> 00:31:19,550 solutions I think you know with 733 00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:21,560 Stephanie talked about with the moment 734 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:23,630 instrument building on things that have 735 00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:25,250 been done for Sam or others and has a 736 00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,140 great example sneaking a capability 737 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:29,120 maybe not sneak in but get it get in a 738 00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:31,700 capability that is not going to scare 739 00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:33,860 away reviewers or headquarters in terms 740 00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:36,320 of risk but it's doing something new and 741 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:37,910 different some aspects of Sherlock you 742 00:31:43,150 --> 00:31:39,890 which mentioned up here on 20/20 same 743 00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:43,160 kind of thing you know using some high 744 00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:45,980 heritage components imaging etc but 745 00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:48,560 getting in this this UV capability that 746 00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:51,620 a lot of astrobiology people want so so 747 00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:54,590 think about you know not hitting the 748 00:31:59,920 --> 00:31:56,720 review panel or NASA over the head with 749 00:32:01,810 --> 00:31:59,930 a 2x4 and saying you guys got to you got 750 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:01,820 to pick this this is the way but instead 751 00:32:06,460 --> 00:32:04,130 you know use little toothpicks and kind 752 00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:06,470 of poke at it right bytes of a thousand 753 00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:11,960 ducks and then so find those increments 754 00:32:16,270 --> 00:32:14,960 like support from a center or your 755 00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:16,280 institution or your university 756 00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:18,560 absolutely critical if you can if you 757 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:20,600 can partner with a with a Goddard with a 758 00:32:26,380 --> 00:32:24,650 JPL with an APL with ass weary or you 759 00:32:27,550 --> 00:32:26,390 know here at ASU we get an enormous 760 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:27,560 amount of support from our own 761 00:32:32,380 --> 00:32:30,260 administration for for proposal writing 762 00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:32,390 and for facilities that can support 763 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:34,790 instruments that people like Phil 764 00:32:39,490 --> 00:32:36,680 Christensen Mark Robinson myself and 765 00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:39,500 others have put together so go you know 766 00:32:43,090 --> 00:32:40,700 go to bat for yourself with your own 767 00:32:46,210 --> 00:32:43,100 institution or make a connection to a 768 00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:46,220 center and then I guess the last little 769 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:48,350 piece of advice thing and maybe a lot of 770 00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:49,850 I know a lot of especially young people 771 00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:51,350 don't realize this but if you really 772 00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:52,340 want to head down this path you're 773 00:32:55,930 --> 00:32:53,360 probably going to have to put your 774 00:32:57,940 --> 00:32:55,940 science career on hold and that can be 775 00:33:00,430 --> 00:32:57,950 challenging you're trying to get tenure 776 00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,440 or you know and the rest of the people 777 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:02,000 in your department or your group or like 778 00:33:05,230 --> 00:33:03,860 where your great science papers and say 779 00:33:08,290 --> 00:33:05,240 oh I'm working on this instrument and 780 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:08,300 they may not understand you know so it's 781 00:33:13,810 --> 00:33:10,700 it's sort of common in the engineering 782 00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:13,820 world or the astronomical instrument 783 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:16,580 world that you know you sort of people 784 00:33:20,430 --> 00:33:18,530 in your in your world understand you're 785 00:33:23,050 --> 00:33:20,440 building this thing to do great science 786 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:23,060 but make sure your own community it's 787 00:33:27,370 --> 00:33:25,010 your own institution University Center 788 00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:27,380 or whatever understands that as well and 789 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:30,470 then my own challenge is just ignoring 790 00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:32,010 all of my own advice 791 00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:35,590 so I mean I you get enamored of some 792 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:38,020 cool idea some interesting new detectors 793 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:41,170 some new riff on on a way to do an 794 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:43,330 imaging or spectroscopy investigation is 795 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:45,760 I got to write that proposal and back in 796 00:33:50,670 --> 00:33:46,930 my mind it's like man they're not going 797 00:33:52,460 --> 00:33:50,680 to pick this but you can't stop so so 798 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:52,470 part of that is just write the proposal 799 00:33:59,780 --> 00:33:55,090 write the proposal get the feedback go 800 00:34:00,960 --> 00:33:59,790 through the process and then persevere 801 00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:00,970 Thanks 802 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:04,390 so hopefully um this is kind of a range 803 00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:07,090 of perspectives from aspiring from 804 00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:09,580 policy and everything my own experience 805 00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:11,860 is that I'm on the instrument team for 806 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:14,560 the ice-penetrating radar on Europa 807 00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:16,810 clipper I'm not a radar person it's 808 00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:18,760 really funny because we tend to as think 809 00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:20,230 it's planetary science be like oh you 810 00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:22,540 are a camera person and you are a 811 00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:24,280 spectrometer person and I apparently am 812 00:34:26,910 --> 00:34:25,990 a radar person which is hilarious 813 00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:26,920 because I've never actually worked on 814 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:29,560 the data from such a thing so but I 815 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:31,210 think that's the other way to think 816 00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:32,650 about it is that there's opportunities 817 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:35,020 to figure out what's out there and how 818 00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:36,490 you can make it an instrument that you 819 00:34:41,820 --> 00:34:39,700 could use and that's another tack you 820 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:41,830 might take in the short term before the 821 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:43,690 instrument development processes so I 822 00:34:48,570 --> 00:34:45,610 got interested in nice penetrating radar 823 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:48,580 because I really wanted to understand 824 00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,490 how the ice shell works on Europa 825 00:34:55,470 --> 00:34:52,960 because I wanted to figure out how long 826 00:34:58,500 --> 00:34:55,480 it took for biomarkers or something like 827 00:35:00,420 --> 00:34:58,510 that to end up at the surface or really 828 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:00,430 what's the context for that thing so 829 00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:01,810 that we can interpret it appropriately 830 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:03,700 and that's a journey that started a long 831 00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:07,530 time ago and so when I finished my as an 832 00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:11,470 undergrad student I heard that the then 833 00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:16,030 2007 Jupiter Europa mission and Jupiter 834 00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:18,190 Europa orbiter was starting up the study 835 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:20,920 and I told Bob Pappalardo I was like I 836 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:24,850 will I will shine shoes make coffee do 837 00:35:29,010 --> 00:35:27,370 anything and Italy I put also take notes 838 00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:29,020 in this list of things that I would be 839 00:35:34,350 --> 00:35:31,390 willing to do in order to help with that 840 00:35:35,940 --> 00:35:34,360 mission study as a person who was too 841 00:35:38,190 --> 00:35:35,950 early to have applied to be on the 842 00:35:40,020 --> 00:35:38,200 science definition team and so Bob was 843 00:35:41,550 --> 00:35:40,030 like oh we don't have anyone taking 844 00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:41,560 notes who's actually done science before 845 00:35:44,070 --> 00:35:43,900 so that sounds like a great idea and so 846 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:44,080 in 847 00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:46,930 2007 I also had a thesis advisor even 848 00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:48,100 though I wasn't working on Europa that 849 00:35:52,530 --> 00:35:50,950 would pay for me because I really 850 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:52,540 couldn't afford to drive from Santa 851 00:35:58,050 --> 00:35:55,090 Monica to LA all or to Pasadena all the 852 00:35:59,220 --> 00:35:58,060 time you know four days a week for you 853 00:36:01,410 --> 00:35:59,230 know five meetings a year or six 854 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:01,420 meetings a year and so he was like very 855 00:36:06,210 --> 00:36:03,910 supportive of this activity and so like 856 00:36:08,070 --> 00:36:06,220 of course we'll cover your you will 857 00:36:09,660 --> 00:36:08,080 cover your gas mileage you know i gas 858 00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:09,670 mileage back and forth so great this is 859 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:11,680 fantastic and and all I did was take 860 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:13,570 notes and but one of the things that I 861 00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:16,240 got very very fast at was being able to 862 00:36:19,830 --> 00:36:17,980 write something down think about it and 863 00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:19,840 then discuss it and it was a really 864 00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:22,030 great environment to do that and so then 865 00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:24,460 it also allowed me to talk to people who 866 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:25,600 were in the room and listen to the 867 00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:27,790 science cases from people who had been 868 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:29,860 you know elected to this position by a 869 00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:33,610 NASA headquarters and what it gave me an 870 00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:35,740 opportunity to do is say I want to work 871 00:36:40,050 --> 00:36:38,260 on that instrument with that person I 872 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:40,060 made a list of five people and then I 873 00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:41,350 just made a really hard case at the 874 00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:43,660 first one and luckily they said yes but 875 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:44,740 when I decided I was going to go to 876 00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:46,330 Texas and work on ice penetrating radar 877 00:36:51,950 --> 00:36:48,760 as a person who had just done their PhD 878 00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:51,960 on Hubble observations of an asteroid 879 00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:53,920 people were like why would you do that 880 00:36:58,380 --> 00:36:56,230 you're the asteroid person that seems 881 00:37:00,720 --> 00:36:58,390 crazy and then it was a little crazy but 882 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:00,730 it also worked out really well and so I 883 00:37:05,370 --> 00:37:03,610 went and I started working with folks 884 00:37:07,470 --> 00:37:05,380 that were building radars and flying 885 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:07,480 them around in Antarctica which is not 886 00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:09,130 exactly what I'm doing now I'm building 887 00:37:12,570 --> 00:37:10,780 other types of instruments that go to 888 00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:12,580 Antarctica but I wouldn't have gotten a 889 00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:14,230 chance to do that if I hadn't done that 890 00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:16,660 you know I hadn't been in the room and 891 00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,460 and been watching how people were 892 00:37:23,310 --> 00:37:20,560 discussing their science and what they 893 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:23,320 wanted to do and then just tried really 894 00:37:26,910 --> 00:37:24,490 hard to convince someone that I could 895 00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,920 get that I could turn a radar or help 896 00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:28,720 turn a radar into an astrobiology 897 00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,420 instrument and so that was a really fun 898 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:34,240 and and different way of looking at a 899 00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:37,570 career path and and so then that's the 900 00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:39,400 same way it was getting getting involved 901 00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:42,280 in being a faculty member was I need 902 00:37:46,890 --> 00:37:44,500 some space to think about these ideas 903 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:46,900 myself so it's a very there's a lot of 904 00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:48,730 different I think experience up here but 905 00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:50,020 that's why I wanted to kind of highlight 906 00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,310 the ways that you might think about 907 00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:53,200 getting involved in missions so that we 908 00:37:58,030 --> 00:37:55,460 can make this life detection thing so 909 00:38:01,180 --> 00:37:58,040 anyway so I wanted to start off and then 910 00:38:04,030 --> 00:38:01,190 we've got about half an hour as 20 911 00:38:06,339 --> 00:38:04,040 minutes or so and to just kind of have a 912 00:38:08,829 --> 00:38:06,349 conversation so if folks have questions 913 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:08,839 please come up to the mic and I'll just 914 00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:11,290 kind of give this get us started so 915 00:38:17,099 --> 00:38:14,720 anyhow so what I wanted to know actually 916 00:38:20,770 --> 00:38:17,109 was so we talked a little bit about 917 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:20,780 heritage and TRL and things like that 918 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:23,690 how do we some of these instruments that 919 00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,490 might be possible a new type of mass 920 00:38:29,290 --> 00:38:27,200 spectrometer there's a lot of heritage 921 00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:29,300 parts a new type of camera with another 922 00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:31,760 another filter system or something you 923 00:38:35,890 --> 00:38:33,200 could imagine being asked for biology 924 00:38:38,620 --> 00:38:35,900 astrobiological irrelevant but how do 925 00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:38,630 you get around the fact that for 926 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:44,030 instance Kapil my own sorry micro 927 00:38:48,430 --> 00:38:46,490 fluidics devices haven't really been 928 00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:48,440 flown how do you how do we get to that 929 00:38:53,799 --> 00:38:50,720 point so I was just wondering if someone 930 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:53,809 would like to take the the point on how 931 00:38:57,370 --> 00:38:55,970 do we get those things that aren't don't 932 00:38:59,799 --> 00:38:57,380 have heritage and don't have a pathway 933 00:39:02,010 --> 00:38:59,809 how do we create a pathway for that to 934 00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:05,049 well I guess I can I can speak to that 935 00:39:08,740 --> 00:39:07,460 sort of in the sense that that's not 936 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:08,750 entirely true I think that's a 937 00:39:14,740 --> 00:39:11,450 misconception and I'm going to promote a 938 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:14,750 you know colleague Tony Rico's work out 939 00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:16,970 of NASA Ames where they've been among 940 00:39:22,180 --> 00:39:19,940 the first to do some amazing small Sat 941 00:39:26,650 --> 00:39:22,190 payloads using microfluidics to do 942 00:39:29,799 --> 00:39:26,660 biology experiments so you know in fact 943 00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:29,809 they're there you know and and so hey 944 00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,390 that's a great template you know there 945 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:34,880 are a lot of sort of nooks and crannies 946 00:39:38,109 --> 00:39:36,890 to try to put things into space and as 947 00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:38,119 soon as you're in space you have 948 00:39:42,190 --> 00:39:40,040 heritage and it may not be perfect 949 00:39:45,609 --> 00:39:42,200 heritage but then you're sort of maybe 950 00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:45,619 closer to I take a piece of this and a 951 00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:47,839 piece of that and and you can start to 952 00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,480 build it up so I guess for micro 953 00:39:55,299 --> 00:39:52,640 fluidics I think it's slow but it is 954 00:39:57,010 --> 00:39:55,309 actually happening and that's taking 955 00:39:59,460 --> 00:39:57,020 those opportunities and putting them 956 00:40:03,940 --> 00:39:59,470 together is what we need to keep doing 957 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:03,950 yeah ok I was just going to add on you 958 00:40:06,970 --> 00:40:05,150 were talking about the small sets but 959 00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,980 there are a number of other flight 960 00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:09,440 opportunities that you can take it 961 00:40:15,730 --> 00:40:12,319 Vantage of through the Meza proposal 962 00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:15,740 system yeah that's I would just say fly 963 00:40:19,569 --> 00:40:17,180 fly fly flight anywhere 964 00:40:23,620 --> 00:40:19,579 balloons high off the aircraft small 965 00:40:24,819 --> 00:40:23,630 SATs CubeSat sounding rockets and also 966 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:24,829 try to take advantage of the technology 967 00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:27,050 development programs they're crazy 968 00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:28,790 competitive they're crazy competitive 969 00:40:32,829 --> 00:40:31,460 but you got to write the proposals and 970 00:40:34,569 --> 00:40:32,839 realize maybe it's going to take you to 971 00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:34,579 three times you can get feedback in the 972 00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:36,079 review panel the proposals going to get 973 00:40:45,609 --> 00:40:39,980 better but you you know that's that is a 974 00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:45,619 path to move it up but I guess I do kind 975 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:47,060 of agree though there is there's this 976 00:40:53,230 --> 00:40:49,810 wall that you're trying to jump over and 977 00:40:56,740 --> 00:40:53,240 once in a while you do see just a really 978 00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:56,750 new thing appear on a mission and for 979 00:41:01,050 --> 00:40:58,160 whatever reason it's you know the time 980 00:41:04,930 --> 00:41:01,060 is right for that that measurement the 981 00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:04,940 risk posture is lower the review 982 00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:06,560 panelists all went out and got drunk the 983 00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:10,190 night before whatever you know and and 984 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:12,230 so I think it also comes back to 985 00:41:22,089 --> 00:41:17,170 perseverance with those new technology 986 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:22,099 do they tend to have widespread adoption 987 00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:23,690 in the scientific community ahead of 988 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:27,920 time well I mean some you know some are 989 00:41:32,260 --> 00:41:30,050 coming from summer kind of a 990 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:32,270 manifestation of that that the 991 00:41:35,170 --> 00:41:33,650 scientific community is working with the 992 00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:35,180 commercial world and these things are 993 00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:38,020 becoming benchtop desktop devices 994 00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:40,430 they're just becoming more reliable the 995 00:41:44,620 --> 00:41:42,500 perception of the risk of some of these 996 00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:44,630 methodologies goes down as they're but 997 00:41:49,809 --> 00:41:46,760 more widely adopted in the community and 998 00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,819 in the commercial world as well as I 999 00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,160 speak to the entry level so Jim 1000 00:41:58,079 --> 00:41:55,040 mentioned the the various calls that we 1001 00:42:02,020 --> 00:41:58,089 have and very recently reorganized our 1002 00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:02,030 technology development to separate and 1003 00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:05,390 refocus some attention on early ideas 1004 00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:08,270 and what they call TRL level one through 1005 00:42:13,390 --> 00:42:09,920 three and then things that actually 1006 00:42:16,059 --> 00:42:13,400 start getting developed to get closer to 1007 00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:16,069 to flight and I think that for many in 1008 00:42:19,450 --> 00:42:18,079 the room you're not worried about flying 1009 00:42:21,790 --> 00:42:19,460 something you're probably worried about 1010 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:21,800 that entry level and so 1011 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:23,690 if you have an idea you should look at 1012 00:42:27,850 --> 00:42:26,570 the sorts of calls like it so we're 1013 00:42:30,430 --> 00:42:27,860 really we think we're clever at 1014 00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:30,440 headquarters we like acronyms and one of 1015 00:42:34,510 --> 00:42:31,940 them is Picasso and that's the 1016 00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:34,520 entry-level one and the one that's more 1017 00:42:38,290 --> 00:42:36,830 towards maturation is Matisse and that's 1018 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:38,300 no comment on the talents of those 1019 00:42:44,830 --> 00:42:41,450 artists and and so I think that you're 1020 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:44,840 the entry level for this group is at for 1021 00:42:49,150 --> 00:42:47,210 many of you with Picasso and perhaps if 1022 00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:49,160 you don't have an idea Jim also 1023 00:42:55,060 --> 00:42:51,710 mentioned you if someone tagged you to 1024 00:42:58,840 --> 00:42:55,070 review we do get people who review on 1025 00:43:00,370 --> 00:42:58,850 our technology that also technology 1026 00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:00,380 panels that also are focused on the 1027 00:43:05,740 --> 00:43:02,510 science on our valuating how important 1028 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:05,750 is this method starting to give feedback 1029 00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:10,190 to proposers about what kind of you know 1030 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:13,040 handling what kind of limitations you've 1031 00:43:17,590 --> 00:43:14,930 experienced yourself even when you're in 1032 00:43:19,570 --> 00:43:17,600 the laboratory or in the field using 1033 00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:19,580 instruments as they're proposing so I 1034 00:43:23,590 --> 00:43:21,320 think for this group you know getting 1035 00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:23,600 involved in at that level and then I 1036 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:24,830 would just reiterate that they've 1037 00:43:29,350 --> 00:43:28,130 identified we know that there's we first 1038 00:43:30,010 --> 00:43:29,360 realizes they're powerful there was 1039 00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:30,020 something called 1040 00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:31,520 I guess the valley of death is used for 1041 00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:33,080 lots of things but there is a valley of 1042 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:35,900 death for technology in the jumped from 1043 00:43:40,990 --> 00:43:38,510 one one to four maybe and then to get 1044 00:43:43,090 --> 00:43:41,000 five and six and ready for flight and so 1045 00:43:44,530 --> 00:43:43,100 we just took four that we also know 1046 00:43:47,170 --> 00:43:44,540 there's this problem with getting access 1047 00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:47,180 and developing heritage and as these 1048 00:43:52,090 --> 00:43:48,830 guys mentioned their balloons there's 1049 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:52,100 the ISS there's small fats there's a 1050 00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:54,170 bunch of different programs that are 1051 00:43:59,220 --> 00:43:56,660 likely to because they're relatively 1052 00:44:03,160 --> 00:43:59,230 inexpensive to provide opportunities for 1053 00:44:05,230 --> 00:44:03,170 flight let me also offer the piece of 1054 00:44:06,940 --> 00:44:05,240 advice to to really get to know the 1055 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:06,950 heritage instruments because when you 1056 00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:08,330 when you know what the inherited 1057 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:11,060 instruments can do then you know you can 1058 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:13,450 use your thinking self to actually 1059 00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:16,370 understand where the gaps are and what 1060 00:44:21,130 --> 00:44:19,550 naturally falls out of the bias 1061 00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:21,140 requirements and maybe meets the fire 1062 00:44:28,450 --> 00:44:23,390 size requirements best and so I really 1063 00:44:30,220 --> 00:44:28,460 like what Jim said about you know maybe 1064 00:44:32,110 --> 00:44:30,230 taking a hybrid approach where you let 1065 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:32,120 the hot the heritage instrument do what 1066 00:44:34,750 --> 00:44:33,890 it does best but take a look at maybe 1067 00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:34,760 the science 1068 00:44:40,210 --> 00:44:38,180 is really best done by by something that 1069 00:44:41,830 --> 00:44:40,220 might be a little bit new yeah that's 1070 00:44:44,770 --> 00:44:41,840 not a great example of that too is 1071 00:44:47,230 --> 00:44:44,780 actually the the ice penetrating radar 1072 00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:47,240 system that we're now sending to Europa 1073 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:48,740 was actually first proposed for Europa 1074 00:44:52,810 --> 00:44:50,450 it was really difficult we didn't get 1075 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:52,820 any missions and what ended up being the 1076 00:44:57,100 --> 00:44:54,710 first ice-penetrating radar was actually 1077 00:44:58,570 --> 00:44:57,110 an ionospheric founder and so they were 1078 00:45:01,930 --> 00:44:58,580 like this could be used as an ice 1079 00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:01,940 penetrating radar but we're sending this 1080 00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:04,310 as an ionospheric sounding instrument 1081 00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:06,380 it's called Marcy's and so it's 1082 00:45:09,610 --> 00:45:08,390 relatively low resolution but it what's 1083 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:09,620 turned out to do is absolutely 1084 00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:12,530 spectacular subsurface sounding and icy 1085 00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:14,480 areas and so it's a perfect example of 1086 00:45:17,350 --> 00:45:15,680 being like this is an ice penetrating 1087 00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:17,360 radar we know what tonight ionospheric 1088 00:45:21,580 --> 00:45:20,150 sounder and so it sounded like a thing 1089 00:45:23,740 --> 00:45:21,590 that people had sent before and it was 1090 00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:23,750 because those technologies are similar 1091 00:45:26,650 --> 00:45:25,550 so anyway so I think that there's lots 1092 00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:26,660 of pathways I know there was at least 1093 00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:31,220 one question yeah just just building a 1094 00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:33,950 little bit on the entry I would be 1095 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:36,260 remiss representing I act if I didn't 1096 00:45:40,540 --> 00:45:38,090 point out there's another path for entry 1097 00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:40,550 into you know trying to understand 1098 00:45:42,730 --> 00:45:42,020 whether your instrument is ready for 1099 00:45:45,970 --> 00:45:42,740 primetime 1100 00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:45,980 meri talked about the TRL level one to 1101 00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:49,700 the Picasso Matisse pathway if your TRL 1102 00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:53,510 zero then Nyack is the right place to 1103 00:45:58,330 --> 00:45:55,760 try to suggest that maybe you have a 1104 00:46:02,920 --> 00:45:58,340 concept that isn't ready for primetime 1105 00:46:05,230 --> 00:46:02,930 but should be and penny Boston is a is a 1106 00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:05,240 fellow of Myakka Lynn Rothschild a 1107 00:46:10,930 --> 00:46:08,390 fellow of Nyack so we have astrobiology 1108 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:10,940 types that are well represented in our 1109 00:46:19,060 --> 00:46:15,530 cast of fellows but the real difference 1110 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:19,070 in Nyack from a technology development 1111 00:46:24,460 --> 00:46:21,410 program is we really don't pay you to 1112 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:24,470 develop your technology what we do is we 1113 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:28,250 we give you a grant of about 125 K for a 1114 00:46:36,010 --> 00:46:30,890 year to show us that your technology 1115 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:36,020 should be considered for for NASA and by 1116 00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:38,330 putting your by putting it in a mission 1117 00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,080 context and if you are interested in 1118 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:44,240 this at all it's highly recommended that 1119 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:45,770 you talk to one of us in the program 1120 00:46:48,050 --> 00:46:47,330 office before you submit your bid 1121 00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,060 because 1122 00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:49,920 the hard part for communities like this 1123 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:52,800 is taking their technology which is what 1124 00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,450 they really love the instrument that 1125 00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:56,640 they really love and putting it in a 1126 00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:00,000 mission context to show that it's 1127 00:47:04,850 --> 00:47:01,500 something that NASA would want to do 1128 00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:04,860 someday so you know this is for all of 1129 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:06,540 you dreamers out there both the 1130 00:47:11,660 --> 00:47:10,050 entry-level postdoc graduate students 1131 00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:11,670 and all the way up through the seasoned 1132 00:47:16,010 --> 00:47:14,190 guys that have had this same banging at 1133 00:47:17,540 --> 00:47:16,020 the back of their head for decades but 1134 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:17,550 they just didn't know what to do with it 1135 00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:21,930 so we found about 15 to 16 grants a year 1136 00:47:26,660 --> 00:47:24,480 at the phase one something to consider 1137 00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:26,670 and we in the program office are happy 1138 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:28,470 to help you understand what the 1139 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:31,170 constraints of the program are and since 1140 00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:33,720 it is different from a formal technology 1141 00:47:40,310 --> 00:47:37,680 development program thanks are there 1142 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:40,320 anyone else nobody has questions for how 1143 00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:42,210 to get an instrument on a spacecraft 1144 00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:47,040 come on man oh yeah this might be kind 1145 00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:48,780 of a wide-ranging question and I welcome 1146 00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:51,780 responses from anyone about this but it 1147 00:47:56,690 --> 00:47:54,240 seems as though on the launch services 1148 00:47:58,820 --> 00:47:56,700 side in the commercial side there's a 1149 00:48:01,850 --> 00:47:58,830 changing relationship of risk with 1150 00:48:04,970 --> 00:48:01,860 launch vehicles itself and I wondered if 1151 00:48:07,220 --> 00:48:04,980 there's any sense that the TRL 1152 00:48:09,620 --> 00:48:07,230 development program itself might have to 1153 00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,630 anticipate and evolve with the increased 1154 00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,040 amount of risk that a lot of these 1155 00:48:15,260 --> 00:48:12,720 launch service providers seem to be 1156 00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:15,270 accepting for themselves Blue Origin and 1157 00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:17,730 SpaceX for example and in the satellite 1158 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:19,590 development and the rapid testing rapid 1159 00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:22,410 prototyping rapid flying kind of regime 1160 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:23,910 that they're entering is there an 1161 00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:25,890 anticipation that the TRL development 1162 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:28,500 program will evolve to be more like this 1163 00:48:33,860 --> 00:48:30,930 or on the other side that there might be 1164 00:48:36,050 --> 00:48:33,870 some dialogue for mirroring the TRL 1165 00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:36,060 Development Program with some of these 1166 00:48:43,580 --> 00:48:38,760 private people and try to find some some 1167 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:43,590 areas of overlap so that's that's a 1168 00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:45,930 great question and you're right the 1169 00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:47,640 commercial world is really starting to 1170 00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:50,910 come online with opportunities for for 1171 00:48:56,810 --> 00:48:53,280 science which is spectacular 1172 00:48:58,310 --> 00:48:56,820 I could personal experience I don't see 1173 00:48:59,950 --> 00:48:58,320 them thinking that way and I think they 1174 00:49:03,670 --> 00:48:59,960 think like NASA 1175 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:03,680 you want to launch a small sad with a 1176 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:06,050 crazy risky experiment that you're not 1177 00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:07,850 sure it'll work and it's got some moving 1178 00:49:10,690 --> 00:49:09,560 parts would survive the shock a launch 1179 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:10,700 will it work in the right environment 1180 00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:13,250 but boy if it does then it's got that 1181 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:15,920 heritage and you know you can make the 1182 00:49:21,580 --> 00:49:19,250 case to get it on you know a SpaceX or 1183 00:49:24,190 --> 00:49:21,590 another launch company I don't care 1184 00:49:27,070 --> 00:49:24,200 are you paying for the ride you buying 1185 00:49:29,740 --> 00:49:27,080 the ride okay go have a good time you 1186 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:29,750 know and so it comes down to having to 1187 00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:33,290 talk Mary into paying for your launch or 1188 00:49:39,460 --> 00:49:36,950 your university president or your Center 1189 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:39,470 Director or you're independently wealthy 1190 00:49:44,170 --> 00:49:42,530 and you just pay it out of pocket but 1191 00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,180 that's incredible that you could do that 1192 00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:46,400 any of us could do that now that's 1193 00:49:51,010 --> 00:49:49,760 totally new what what's happening I 1194 00:49:52,690 --> 00:49:51,020 think is there's there's going to be 1195 00:49:54,550 --> 00:49:52,700 this there's already this developing 1196 00:49:56,050 --> 00:49:54,560 relationship between NASA and other 1197 00:49:58,900 --> 00:49:56,060 space agencies with the commercial 1198 00:50:01,240 --> 00:49:58,910 sector and buy and launch opportunities 1199 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:01,250 and then it won't be a free-for-all 1200 00:50:06,010 --> 00:50:04,010 there'll be a competition but NASA is 1201 00:50:08,770 --> 00:50:06,020 providing these these opportunities and 1202 00:50:11,170 --> 00:50:08,780 and then you're back to competing and 1203 00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,180 trying to make the case that this 1204 00:50:15,130 --> 00:50:14,000 deserves a shot at this but it is the 1205 00:50:22,140 --> 00:50:15,140 case that you could just do it on your 1206 00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,850 so this might be a I guess a no-brainer 1207 00:50:29,260 --> 00:50:27,200 but I kind of I sometimes get an 1208 00:50:31,810 --> 00:50:29,270 impression that we as astrobiologists 1209 00:50:35,470 --> 00:50:31,820 gavotte tunnel vision upwards and there 1210 00:50:37,090 --> 00:50:35,480 um I guess comments from you about you 1211 00:50:38,590 --> 00:50:37,100 know their science still to do on here 1212 00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:38,600 on earth and I'm sure the people who 1213 00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:41,510 were in the hydrothermal vent sessions 1214 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:43,520 here at the conference would love better 1215 00:50:48,490 --> 00:50:45,970 math specs and better and 1216 00:50:50,170 --> 00:50:48,500 electrophoresis devices to put on subs 1217 00:50:52,210 --> 00:50:50,180 and I know for certain I would love 1218 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:52,220 better instruments that I can put under 1219 00:50:57,790 --> 00:50:56,090 harsh conditions in the lab so you know 1220 00:50:59,230 --> 00:50:57,800 there's those collaborations there with 1221 00:51:01,930 --> 00:50:59,240 colleagues who maybe might not otherwise 1222 00:51:03,850 --> 00:51:01,940 work with and things to do there so 1223 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:03,860 maybe you have comments on that yeah 1224 00:51:09,070 --> 00:51:05,450 actually uh so Amanda and I are doing 1225 00:51:11,070 --> 00:51:09,080 exactly that I was a crazy person 1226 00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:11,080 decided to build a robot with my startup 1227 00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:12,760 having not done 1228 00:51:16,820 --> 00:51:15,070 myself before but what's awesome is that 1229 00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:16,830 since amanda is at the same institution 1230 00:51:24,780 --> 00:51:22,390 we through a microfluidic device on to 1231 00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:24,790 our our proposal for that and so we're 1232 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:25,960 actually trying to do that like little 1233 00:51:30,510 --> 00:51:27,610 pseudo missions and it's a great 1234 00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:30,520 experience too because leading 1235 00:51:34,740 --> 00:51:32,860 technology teams even as a scientist or 1236 00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:34,750 the scientific background is a really 1237 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:35,950 great place to cut your teeth on 1238 00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:38,050 figuring out how a mission might work on 1239 00:51:41,550 --> 00:51:39,880 a greater scale so men and I have an 1240 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:41,560 example of that kind of thing and I 1241 00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:42,970 think that's that's very true is that 1242 00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:46,000 there's ways to to pitch the instruments 1243 00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,910 back and forth and get them more more 1244 00:51:53,580 --> 00:51:50,800 experienced but Amanda maybe you have a 1245 00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:53,590 couple more comments um so as you know 1246 00:52:00,330 --> 00:51:57,040 Adam a large fraction of my program does 1247 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:00,340 do field work and so there's a lot of 1248 00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:02,170 science that you really would love to do 1249 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:03,400 in the field and some of these new 1250 00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:06,130 technologies could possibly help you get 1251 00:52:10,550 --> 00:52:08,320 those done and it's great for the 1252 00:52:12,660 --> 00:52:10,560 instrument developers too because 1253 00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:12,670 basically you need to be able to show 1254 00:52:16,350 --> 00:52:14,020 that it would work here before you have 1255 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:16,360 any hope of it working elsewhere in my 1256 00:52:20,580 --> 00:52:18,130 personal opinion and I think a few of 1257 00:52:22,410 --> 00:52:20,590 you may share that opinion so 1258 00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,420 partnerships between instrument 1259 00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:24,640 developers and and field scientists is a 1260 00:52:31,110 --> 00:52:27,430 wonderful route forward so say that 1261 00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,120 NASA's focus to a great extent is is yes 1262 00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:33,040 we look to the Stars and beyond Earth 1263 00:52:36,090 --> 00:52:34,600 but we know that we're only going to get 1264 00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,100 there if we understand how to do things 1265 00:52:41,070 --> 00:52:38,800 here on earth initially and I just like 1266 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:41,080 to share a success story that is a prime 1267 00:52:47,490 --> 00:52:44,170 example of iteration of development 1268 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:47,500 between funding from NASA funding from 1269 00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,170 NSF and and funding and development for 1270 00:52:57,660 --> 00:52:53,440 at Hui and that was we funded a group to 1271 00:52:59,580 --> 00:52:57,670 develop to further develop a mass spec 1272 00:53:02,700 --> 00:52:59,590 to develop autonomous operations of a 1273 00:53:05,010 --> 00:53:02,710 vehicle and this group at Woods Hole led 1274 00:53:08,190 --> 00:53:05,020 by Dana Gege then actually was asked to 1275 00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:08,200 deploy this to map out deep horizon 1276 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:11,710 plume and you know that the underwater 1277 00:53:16,860 --> 00:53:14,290 vehicle had been developed by by who we 1278 00:53:19,110 --> 00:53:16,870 through independent other other funding 1279 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:19,120 but that autonomy and that instrument 1280 00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:22,090 were instrumental in and actually being 1281 00:53:25,499 --> 00:53:23,710 able to determine what was happening 1282 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:25,509 with that plume so you know 1283 00:53:29,249 --> 00:53:27,249 those are things that we look for we 1284 00:53:32,129 --> 00:53:29,259 really know that we have to partner we 1285 00:53:35,249 --> 00:53:32,139 know that there is a gigantic source of 1286 00:53:36,809 --> 00:53:35,259 talent and engineering capabilities and 1287 00:53:38,849 --> 00:53:36,819 instrument development going on for 1288 00:53:41,219 --> 00:53:38,859 exploring our own world and you really 1289 00:53:42,779 --> 00:53:41,229 don't want to reinvent the wheel right 1290 00:53:45,569 --> 00:53:42,789 and so Goddard hasn't lost sight of this 1291 00:53:47,939 --> 00:53:45,579 either and we have a very vigorous field 1292 00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:47,949 field work aspect or work and also 1293 00:53:50,939 --> 00:53:49,359 partner with people who go out to the 1294 00:53:53,429 --> 00:53:50,949 field and get us interesting samples 1295 00:53:55,919 --> 00:53:53,439 that we can exercise our instruments 1296 00:53:57,659 --> 00:53:55,929 with there's new Picasso in fact that 1297 00:54:02,759 --> 00:53:57,669 looking at underwater mass spectrometry 1298 00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:02,769 so definitely of interest yeah yeah I 1299 00:54:06,269 --> 00:54:04,209 just want to make a comment I think this 1300 00:54:08,429 --> 00:54:06,279 is a very good discussion on you know 1301 00:54:10,859 --> 00:54:08,439 how to make use of what we can do here 1302 00:54:14,399 --> 00:54:10,869 so your instrument looks like it's more 1303 00:54:18,179 --> 00:54:14,409 ready for spaceflight the equation is 1304 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:18,189 not necessarily heritage and risk but 1305 00:54:23,639 --> 00:54:21,130 it's actually cost risk and so so much 1306 00:54:25,169 --> 00:54:23,649 of the review is well this looks like a 1307 00:54:26,849 --> 00:54:25,179 really interesting instrument but it 1308 00:54:29,909 --> 00:54:26,859 hasn't been flown before we don't know 1309 00:54:31,529 --> 00:54:29,919 if they can get there and as it is not 1310 00:54:34,049 --> 00:54:31,539 whether or not the instrument will work 1311 00:54:37,229 --> 00:54:34,059 it's how much money is it going to cost 1312 00:54:40,349 --> 00:54:37,239 NASA to get it to work to get it on the 1313 00:54:45,299 --> 00:54:40,359 launch pad and so doing things such as 1314 00:54:46,739 --> 00:54:45,309 getting on cube SATs or getting into the 1315 00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,749 field and having your instrument do 1316 00:54:52,439 --> 00:54:49,359 things in different environments helps 1317 00:54:54,899 --> 00:54:52,449 reassure the review panel that even 1318 00:54:57,439 --> 00:54:54,909 though this may not have flown it looks 1319 00:55:00,689 --> 00:54:57,449 fairly robust and it's not going to be a 1320 00:55:02,939 --> 00:55:00,699 big surprise expense to get it to the 1321 00:55:04,829 --> 00:55:02,949 launch pad so it's something to keep in 1322 00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:04,839 mind and so the other half of that 1323 00:55:08,489 --> 00:55:06,729 equation is if you have a cheap 1324 00:55:10,620 --> 00:55:08,499 instrument you'll probably have more 1325 00:55:13,159 --> 00:55:10,630 opportunities because they'll be willing 1326 00:55:16,979 --> 00:55:13,169 to take that risk because it's not that 1327 00:55:18,509 --> 00:55:16,989 big of an investment so and that kind of 1328 00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:18,519 plays also into the commercial thing 1329 00:55:23,999 --> 00:55:21,369 where mary may not want to cough up the 1330 00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:24,009 money for a launch and a hundred million 1331 00:55:29,789 --> 00:55:27,359 dollars for an instrument if there's 1332 00:55:32,459 --> 00:55:29,799 some concern about whether or not the 1333 00:55:35,819 --> 00:55:32,469 launch will be successful sure but if 1334 00:55:37,769 --> 00:55:35,829 it's a relatively cheap flight 1335 00:55:39,250 --> 00:55:37,779 instrument you might be willing to make 1336 00:55:43,050 --> 00:55:39,260 that bet because the payoffs are 1337 00:55:48,070 --> 00:55:43,060 worth the risk I would also say just 1338 00:55:49,330 --> 00:55:48,080 something to think about is figuring out 1339 00:55:53,020 --> 00:55:49,340 how to be one of those people that's 1340 00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:53,030 reviewing so there's you know kind of a 1341 00:55:58,060 --> 00:55:56,000 bank of experience and and they'll pull 1342 00:56:01,990 --> 00:55:58,070 from that to review missions the same as 1343 00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,000 for instrument proposals but the what's 1344 00:56:08,860 --> 00:56:04,480 that I'm going to mess up the name the 1345 00:56:11,350 --> 00:56:08,870 DMC su propia timko so the PMC panel so 1346 00:56:12,850 --> 00:56:11,360 that's the technical evaluation so 1347 00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:12,860 there's a science evaluation of missions 1348 00:56:17,260 --> 00:56:14,960 and instruments and there's a technical 1349 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:17,270 evaluation and so those aren't those are 1350 00:56:22,330 --> 00:56:20,090 kind of separate processes so if you 1351 00:56:23,350 --> 00:56:22,340 have interest in this or experience in 1352 00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,360 astrobiology I think we need more 1353 00:56:28,180 --> 00:56:25,760 astrobiologists reviewing and for those 1354 00:56:30,250 --> 00:56:28,190 things so I would say you know talk to 1355 00:56:31,570 --> 00:56:30,260 talk to headquarters about how to do 1356 00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:31,580 that because having people that 1357 00:56:37,420 --> 00:56:34,160 understand the science and the 1358 00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:37,430 technology that are new and and very 1359 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:39,200 important to this community on the 1360 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:40,610 review panel's I think will really also 1361 00:56:44,890 --> 00:56:43,130 very much help that's a great point is 1362 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:44,900 this at once so technical management 1363 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:47,210 costs other I think they drop the other 1364 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:50,210 but yeah so Brittany's right there's two 1365 00:56:55,210 --> 00:56:51,890 separate review panels essentially that 1366 00:56:58,810 --> 00:56:55,220 review these things and I will say from 1367 00:57:00,430 --> 00:56:58,820 experience you know the your instrument 1368 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:00,440 your idea your mission could be 1369 00:57:05,830 --> 00:57:03,770 technically spectacular amazing 1370 00:57:09,010 --> 00:57:05,840 management right on the line on cost if 1371 00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:09,020 you haven't excited the engineers and 1372 00:57:11,890 --> 00:57:10,730 the managers and the cost modelers with 1373 00:57:14,350 --> 00:57:11,900 the science you're not going to get 1374 00:57:16,510 --> 00:57:14,360 selected so the science really it's it's 1375 00:57:19,630 --> 00:57:16,520 really heartwarming to me how it drives 1376 00:57:21,460 --> 00:57:19,640 that technical side of a date you want 1377 00:57:22,930 --> 00:57:21,470 those your engineering buddies to be all 1378 00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:22,940 Mike we have to do this this is 1379 00:57:29,830 --> 00:57:27,440 spectacular now let's pick it apart and 1380 00:57:31,330 --> 00:57:29,840 say one good entry to is in fact it was 1381 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:31,340 the very first interaction I had with 1382 00:57:35,710 --> 00:57:33,530 NASA's I was on an a step panel when 1383 00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:35,720 Michael Mayer was running it and it was 1384 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:39,230 amazing to interact with engineers I 1385 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:40,970 actually had a little book that I kept 1386 00:57:45,130 --> 00:57:43,610 creating my own lexicon of exactly so I 1387 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:45,140 would understand what brass board 1388 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:46,970 breadboard and all sorts of other things 1389 00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:50,810 meant but there was it was really fun 1390 00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:52,000 trying to 1391 00:57:56,700 --> 00:57:53,260 in some of my excitement for a 1392 00:58:00,570 --> 00:57:56,710 scientific purpose for an instrument or 1393 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:00,580 technology and then to laugh at me isn't 1394 00:58:05,850 --> 00:58:03,850 my naivete but after that I mean it you 1395 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:05,860 know again P star is now the current a 1396 00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:07,810 step that's a great way you get a nice 1397 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:10,240 mix you can feel relatively confident 1398 00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:11,650 that you have something to offer because 1399 00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,020 there's science in that but also get a 1400 00:58:22,050 --> 00:58:16,240 really great introduction to technology 1401 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:22,060 and and mission operations yeah comment 1402 00:58:27,180 --> 00:58:24,850 on getting to the high TRL level so that 1403 00:58:28,980 --> 00:58:27,190 even a sounding rocket or cube set 1404 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:28,990 doesn't necessarily show you flight 1405 00:58:32,580 --> 00:58:30,610 heritage if you're going to say Europa 1406 00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:32,590 Enceladus and thank you lies in 1407 00:58:36,330 --> 00:58:34,450 radiation something that everybody has 1408 00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:36,340 more control over and more access to as 1409 00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:37,540 you figure out what the environment is 1410 00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:39,310 and you can simulate it here on earth 1411 00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:41,740 and you can show that you can be TRL 6 1412 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:43,270 without ever having gone to space 1413 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:44,530 because you can simulate the whole 1414 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:46,090 environment which is what we do for 1415 00:58:50,070 --> 00:58:48,370 every flight instrument anyway and so if 1416 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:50,080 you do a mini version of that it's 1417 00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:51,910 something you can do without having to 1418 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:53,980 go through the whole expensive process 1419 00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:55,690 of getting there so yeah we're going to 1420 00:59:01,290 --> 00:58:56,950 have confidence that it's going to make 1421 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:01,300 it and sure yeah almost anything doesn't 1422 00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:03,010 have heritage when you go to a place 1423 00:59:07,980 --> 00:59:05,260 like Europa or i/o where the radiation 1424 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:07,990 environment is incredibly intense so I'm 1425 00:59:12,030 --> 00:59:09,610 thinking about that and retiring risk in 1426 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:12,040 that in that area can be a good move so 1427 00:59:15,630 --> 00:59:13,570 let's take the last question and then 1428 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:15,640 we'll wrap it up well it's just a 1429 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:16,930 comment I haven't heard anything said 1430 00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,210 about the ISS which is a way that you 1431 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:21,040 can fly something or you can get TRL 1432 00:59:25,770 --> 00:59:23,770 it's not exactly in vacuum but it's also 1433 00:59:28,110 --> 00:59:25,780 got there's a lot of money on the hgmd 1434 00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:28,120 side and they've done biology for 1435 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:31,030 decades now on the ISS so I did say ISS 1436 00:59:35,070 --> 00:59:33,010 I'm sorry that's ok and might we've sent 1437 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:35,080 micro fluidics and funded stuff for that 1438 00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:37,890 we've sent ya no no that's absolutely 1439 00:59:43,350 --> 00:59:41,440 yeah but but thanks if you didn't hear 1440 00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:43,360 it and you were hoping there no one else 1441 00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:45,850 heard it so thank you yes we've said a 1442 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:47,470 lot of acronyms so just to review a 1443 00:59:52,170 --> 00:59:50,050 couple of them PSA so those are the 1444 00:59:54,510 --> 00:59:52,180 people doing technical reviews of 1445 00:59:56,730 --> 00:59:54,520 missions and instruments we talked about 1446 00:59:58,890 --> 00:59:56,740 P stars so that's the planetary science 1447 01:00:00,550 --> 00:59:58,900 and technology for us or for analog 1448 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:00,560 research 1449 01:00:05,740 --> 01:00:02,930 other acronyms living through a Picasso 1450 01:00:08,620 --> 01:00:05,750 that's the low TRL program and Matisse 1451 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:08,630 is the high TRL programs maturation 1452 01:00:15,550 --> 01:00:12,050 program but I just want to go back to 1453 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:15,560 the assessment group so Oh TRL technical 1454 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:16,970 readiness level or technology readiness 1455 01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:21,050 level one of those no worries um we got 1456 01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:24,170 you um but uh yeah I just wanted to go 1457 01:00:28,180 --> 01:00:25,760 back because we're a science community 1458 01:00:29,590 --> 01:00:28,190 let's circle back to this idea so Jim 1459 01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,600 actually said something you know maybe 1460 01:00:32,830 --> 01:00:31,040 we should have an astrobiology aggghhhh 1461 01:00:35,140 --> 01:00:32,840 I actually think that we should just 1462 01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:35,150 raise the noise floor in the existing 1463 01:00:38,860 --> 01:00:37,280 communities because at this point in 1464 01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:38,870 time everybody said Oh Mars has been 1465 01:00:42,130 --> 01:00:40,550 very successful let's have our own egg 1466 01:00:42,910 --> 01:00:42,140 and then we'll have ten missions that's 1467 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:42,920 not how it works 1468 01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:44,570 the next mission isn't just ode to 1469 01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:46,760 anyone you have to get in and roll up 1470 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:49,310 sleeves and accept the beating that will 1471 01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:51,290 come as you get through the process and 1472 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:53,540 so those those assessment groups are 1473 01:00:58,120 --> 01:00:55,490 really important and I don't remember 1474 01:01:01,150 --> 01:00:58,130 when the next V tag one is but the next 1475 01:01:03,540 --> 01:01:01,160 outer planets assessment group meeting 1476 01:01:06,970 --> 01:01:03,550 is going to be in San Diego in September 1477 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:06,980 and so I would highly encourage folks 1478 01:01:10,270 --> 01:01:08,570 who are interested in that if you can't 1479 01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:10,280 make it to San Diego it's sometimes hard 1480 01:01:14,770 --> 01:01:13,040 to get travel dollars to do that we've 1481 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:14,780 been trying to get at least a few early 1482 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:17,450 career folks there for each of those for 1483 01:01:20,620 --> 01:01:18,410 those meetings and that will again 1484 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:20,630 happen for the September meeting but 1485 01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:23,450 they're always online as well and so 1486 01:01:27,970 --> 01:01:26,210 listen in and comment and talk on you 1487 01:01:29,410 --> 01:01:27,980 know ask questions and try to 1488 01:01:32,830 --> 01:01:29,420 participate in that process 1489 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:32,840 because it's a long lead-time activity 1490 01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:34,850 you have to be thinking about it 10 1491 01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,310 years before it's going to happen so I 1492 01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:39,200 hope that that's hopefully helpful did 1493 01:01:45,460 --> 01:01:43,040 you have something when - oh there you 1494 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:45,470 go affect the small bodies a specimen 1495 01:01:49,660 --> 01:01:48,170 group so anyway I hope this has been at 1496 01:01:51,610 --> 01:01:49,670 least informational for poor folks 1497 01:01:53,940 --> 01:01:51,620 please come to those eggs and please 1498 01:01:56,500 --> 01:01:53,950 talk to your planetary science 1499 01:01:58,810 --> 01:01:56,510 colleagues and let's just try to raise 1500 01:02:00,280 --> 01:01:58,820 the noise floor on life detection and 1501 01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:00,290 complex chemistry and all these things 1502 01:02:03,580 --> 01:02:02,210 that we care so deeply about so that in 1503 01:02:05,170 --> 01:02:03,590 10 years were having a conversation 1504 01:02:07,060 --> 01:02:05,180 about all of the detection we've made 1505 01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,070 instead of or maybe it'll be 20 years 1506 01:02:11,470 --> 01:02:09,200 instead of how are we going to make this 1507 01:02:13,900 --> 01:02:11,480 this time so I'm going to say that 1508 01:02:17,380 --> 01:02:13,910 TI's our sponsors here the new planetary 1509 01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:17,390 Institute hosts websites for each of the 1510 01:02:21,460 --> 01:02:19,310 eggs and so if you just want to get a 1511 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:21,470 flavor of what sort of business gets 1512 01:02:25,210 --> 01:02:22,850 conducted there are agendas and 1513 01:02:28,740 --> 01:02:25,220 presentations so you can take a look at 1514 01:02:31,859 --> 01:02:28,750 what yes I guess they don't have to 1515 01:02:34,750 --> 01:02:31,869 technology no microphone oh just wait 1516 01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:34,760 exactly anyway so you can look there and 1517 01:02:40,180 --> 01:02:37,369 get a flavor before you you dive in and 1518 01:02:41,740 --> 01:02:40,190 see what people have been doing so yep 1519 01:02:43,020 --> 01:02:41,750 well I'd like to thank our panelists so